Curse

Crimson Robes · Oct 20, 2010, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Some things would be easy to set up to teach people. Others such as nailing bulls and weapswaps can be easily learned by doing RA/Ab and other casual formats. The largest issue/boundry i see is the overall calling of tactics. Who splits where, when do you run the flag, etc. So basically i think that there is no shortage of good players, but a shortage of players that understand the overall tactics.

How about we just make a list of everyone that would be interested to GvG just for fun, experienced people and new people, and try set up a few teams? In an ideal scenario we get 16 people and we can relaxedly 8 vs 8. Dont see this happening offcourse, but can try to get 2 equally sized teams and fill with henchies. 4 people and we can GvG henchway, 8 people and we can 8 vs 8 with henchies ^^ (yes im getting excited

)

Quote:

1: Morbid Memories
2:
3:
4:
5:
6:
7:
8:

fires element · Oct 20, 2010, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meridon

PvE people, don't be afraid to take some guildies and 4 henchmen into GvG when it's Zquest day! Many people do it. Just play for the fun side of things, and don't expect to win. You'll have a great time.

don't expect to win? so why would someone do it if they didn't expect to win at least some of the time. how would that be the fun side of things? i guess you meant that it would be the fun side of things for you but not necessarily them.

i think this post has an admirable goal in mind but i don't think it will work out. i don't think people will want to play it just to try it out or whatever you want to call it cause eventually the frustration will kick in of not winning and they leave again. so in the end you will have solved nothing. and by having "experienced" gvgers group with others... how long do you think it will take before the experienced person gets frustrated with the lack of progress of the team he is trying to help? then when that happens he/she abandons them and again you have solved nothing.

KotCR · Oct 20, 2010, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Eh, would love to get to play GvG at some point, as I've always been interested in the PvP side of things. However, I've never been able to find a guild that is willing to do it, and in the five or so years I've played the game, I've only ever got to play 3 or 4 GvG matches. And as far as the PvE side of things is concerned, I like my guild (as I did my previous guild before it that eventually died) and so would not want to change guild just to get to play some GvG.

Never even had a chance to try HA much, due to the rank discrimination that goes on there (how on earth can I get r8 in HA to get accepted into a group if nobody will let me player HA in the first place, eh?). So unfourtunetly as far as PvP goes I've always more or less been stuck shoehorned into RA, JQ, FA or AB if I'm lucky.

But what I said in my first paragraph, I think it's the prime reason why you don't find many doing GvG - while there is almost certainly players in each guild that want to GvG, there is never enough in a single guild to get one going - and nobody wants to give up the benefit of a good guilld for the PvE side of things just to get a shot at GvG.

Guesting is easier said than done; And I'm pretty sure 80% of people on my friend's list are no longer active players, and the other 20% don't remember me.

Artisan Archer · Oct 20, 2010, 12:45 PM // 12:45

It will work. This is a good initiative. If you get enough players try it out, there will be at least a few that will go through and continue playing. Posting this here on gwg, will reach alot of people. This could be just that nudge that alot of people need to start gvging. If enough people participate, this could really help the gvg community and the game as a whole.

AexIndex · Oct 20, 2010, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Good post! I am tired of seeing the same 24 people all the time!

Crimson Robes · Oct 20, 2010, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by KotCR

*snip*

I like my guild (as I did my previous guild before it that eventually died) and so would not want to change guild just to get to play some GvG.

Never even had a chance to try HA much, due to the rank discrimination that goes on there (how on earth can I get r8 in HA to get accepted into a group if nobody will let me player HA in the first place, eh?)

I got HA rank 7 in the last 7 or so months, started at zero. formed my own hexway teams r5+, till i got rank 3

Then i started forming some other game types till i was r5

Made some friends joined sexy and got r7

So, if you amke the team theres no rank discrimination.

And for GvG: You dont need to leave your guild, you can just be guested. edit: You can also just leave your guild for some GvG's and then rejoin it a few hours later

Ariena Najea · Oct 20, 2010, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by fires element

don't expect to win? so why would someone do it if they didn't expect to win at least some of the time. how would that be the fun side of things? i guess you meant that it would be the fun side of things for you but not necessarily them.

i think this post has an admirable goal in mind but i don't think it will work out. i don't think people will want to play it just to try it out or whatever you want to call it cause eventually the frustration will kick in of not winning and they leave again. so in the end you will have solved nothing. and by having "experienced" gvgers group with others... how long do you think it will take before the experienced person gets frustrated with the lack of progress of the team he is trying to help? then when that happens he/she abandons them and again you have solved nothing.

Not everyone who gives GvG/PvP a chance as a result of this move will continue to PvP. Also consider that an influx of new players will result in a greater chance of new players combating each other as opposed to the current system where only a few "elite" teams are on at any given time. As for mentors getting frustrated, that is inevitable. It is my hope that enough players will donate some of their time that if someone is unhappy with the help that they are receiving, there will be others to take them in. Likewise, those interested in mentoring should have enough players interested that they can find a good fit. Some groups/mentors will simply not be happy with the process and move on to something else. Anyone who decides to go back to what they were doing before is of course entitled to their own opinion. Anyone who wasn't PvPing previously that stops will not result in a net decrease in the PvP population.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KotCR

But what I said in my first paragraph, I think it's the prime reason why you don't find many doing GvG - while there is almost certainly players in each guild that want to GvG, there is never enough in a single guild to get one going - and nobody wants to give up the benefit of a good guilld for the PvE side of things just to get a shot at GvG.

Guesting is easier said than done; And I'm pretty sure 80% of people on my friend's list are no longer active players, and the other 20% don't remember me.

I'm planning on running my tournament with 3 tiers, one of which meant specifically for new(ish) PvPers. Since most new PvPers don't have established connections or a PvP guild, this tier would consist of 4 player + 4 hench teams. How would you all feel about having the option to form partial groups (1-3 people) that the tournament staff would pair with other partial groups to create a full team of 4? While you will not have a history with all of your teammates, this should make it easier for small groups and lone players to enter in, and meet some new friends on the way!

Krill · Oct 20, 2010, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

kiSu is defunct, unfortunately.

That sucks, like many other players that was where I learned GvG.

Of course you don't need a starter guild to GvG, just get a few people, fill up the rest of the party with henchmen and go. Sure you'll lose a lot but it is a decent way to get an understanding of what's going on and most importantly fun.

Unfortunately I think a lot of PvE players were turned off to PvP altogether trying to play RA or HA. Those formats are cesspools filled with the worst players and trash talk. There are some bad apples in GvG but for the most part opponents will just say GG and you might even meet some new people.

Guy Incognito · Oct 20, 2010, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krill

Unfortunately I think a lot of PvE players were turned off to PvP altogether trying to play RA or HA.

Thats certainly the case for me, I've never seen so many obnoxious arseholes in one place as in RA.

Whilst I very much doubt I'll ever try this GvG lark, this idea looks well thought out and I'll wish you folks the best of luck and hope it works out well for you.

helloeveryone · Oct 20, 2010, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Incognito

Thats certainly the case for me, I've never seen so many obnoxious arseholes in one place as in RA.

Whilst I very much doubt I'll ever try this GvG lark, this idea looks well thought out and I'll wish you folks the best of luck and hope it works out well for you.

Same for me, having being called a "noob", "U are pathetic" "go back to Pve" by some respectable Guilds in RA (yes, top guild in RA messing around calling others noobcake for the fun of whatever reason) is more than enough to turn me off this GVG lark.

Idea is good though, wish u folks best of luck

fowlero · Oct 20, 2010, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by helloeveryone

Same for me, having being called a "noob", "U are pathetic" "go back to Pve" by some respectable Guilds in RA (yes, top guild in RA messing around calling others noobcake for the fun of whatever reason) is more than enough to turn me off this GVG lark.

Idea is good though, wish u folks best of luck

Whilst there are of course exceptions, very few core players from "respectable" guilds will talk any of that crap in RA.

They could well have been leechers, don't take guild tag/trim to mean anything.

Riot Narita · Oct 20, 2010, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Good post, OP. In the early days of GW, I did PvP... it was even fun. But then it became like this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Incognito

I've never seen so many obnoxious arseholes in one place as in RA

And not just in RA either. Asshats, and your own team-mates, giving you a constant stream of verbal abuse.

At least with GvG, you play with guild-mates and stand a chance of some friendly cooperation, advice and coaching, and a bit of fun. I still won't bother though, because my guild has too few people left, I don't think any of them are inclined to GvG, and I'm not keen on switching guilds.

Roll on GW2. Then you can be in more than one guild, and - for a time at least - the majority will be noobs, with no cookie-cutter FotM builds or ranks to comply with.

FengShuiDove · Oct 20, 2010, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Hm. I'd consider myself slightly better than the average PvPer. I can weapon swap decently, and I always note positioning of myself and my enemies. Still, I've never been able to bridge the gap into HA/GvG. I've got r2 HA but that's worthless, and I've done a few GvGs but never really did well.

Maybe I'll try it out on ZQ day, and maybe I'll PM some people on Obs just for fun.

Still, The PvP Community really has no one but themselves to blame for making the entry-barrier so high. I understand the steep learning curve, that's natural for this, but the willingness to take a few risks to introduce new people or help newbies has been sadly lacking over the last several years. The rage noobs in RA (and even AB) don't help either, but by and large there's nothing you (legitimate players) can do about that.

makosi · Oct 20, 2010, 02:42 PM // 14:42

What puts me off is the mirror matches. GvG has become so refined to one team build (with minor midline variances).

I miss There Is Not Cow Level and that necro guild (forgot the name).

EditL Necro Raiders

Gabriel of Ravn · Oct 20, 2010, 03:09 PM // 15:09

I had been wanting to get into GvG for a while but it's mostly I'm not on consistently enough to really get a hold of GvG.

But hopefully this thread does help GvG out.

Jade Zephyr · Oct 20, 2010, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Good luck. I know there is a lot of players who has been PvPing for a long time but can only play every now and then (too inconsistent to be in a guild) who loves playing GvG.
These are players who are not new to PvP or GvG even, and who could help teaching others too.

Still Number One · Oct 20, 2010, 04:25 PM // 16:25

This thread is a nice gesture but unfortunately I don't see it doing a lot of good.

The best way to get people to try to GvG is to hold a giant event. GvG needs another Guru Tournament/rawr tournament. And it needs to provide incentives to play. The rewards have to be enticing enough to grab people's attention and hopefully some guilds and players will have a good enough time that they will stick with it and do it more often, even if just casually.

Hosting another guru tourney solves many of the deterrents newer players have. For the most part they will face people of their own experience. The last tourney had a few guilds here and there sneak by the people setting up the leagues and trying to make sure no one snuck in a division that they were above, but for the most part, it was very well managed.

It gives players something to aim for. They aren't just aiming for some title or the possibility to win a cape trim a year down the road. They are looking at a real prize they can win just for participating in a 1 day tourney against people of their own skill level. That provides an incentive to at the very least, consider participating.

The original guru tourney also had a live radio broadcast highlighting matches with commentary from Joe Hostile and Rusty (if I remember correctly). Not to mention Asp getting on all hyper from a sugar rush or something and talking a mile a minute. That was entertaining. It got people more interested in GvG then they had been in recent memory. Even if you didn't participate there are still plenty of great matches to watch, with guilds of every skill level, and live commentary to go along with them.

Would it work? I have no clue. I don't know how hard it would be to put it on, what kind of rewards could be offered, who would be willing to monitor the leagues, whether or not A.Net will support it and put it on obs, etc. I don't even know if the interest in it would be as large as it was during the first (I doubt it, but some interest is better then no interest right?).

Basically GvG needs outside help. It needs help that the PvP community can't give it. It needs outside promotion from A.Net and fansites like Guru. Is it worth it? To the GvGers yes. To A.Net and Guru? That is for them to decide.

jackinthe · Oct 20, 2010, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by End

I'd love to GvG I usually spec a few matches a night. But...I am part of a one person guild in a non existent alliance and I would assume most guilds wouldn't guest...

been there. always hated having to transfer GL to alts so i could leave my mostly dead guild of 4-5yr tightknit pve pros so i could get my pvp on :/

The PvP Community · Oct 20, 2010, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Thank you for all the support, collectively I believe we are all somewhat surprised by the interest level out there. I will try to help Lem compile a list of IGNs to refer to for all GvG related questions, etc.

Any questions can be directed to him, indirectly to us through me, or to the community on TeamQuitter.com, if some idiot makes a mean remark, I can assure you the mods will take it down and give that user a talking to.

~The GvG Community

tormtk · Oct 20, 2010, 05:46 PM // 17:46

As already stated the game is old. Most competitive groups have already left the game. What is left in the game is small groups of pvpers, pvers, and mixed. the key word is small groups. I would guess 90% of the games guilds have 3-10 active members at most. Over the years more pvpers have left the game leaving most of these small groups as pve groups. There are lots of people out there that wanna pvp, but they are in guilds/ alliances w/o the intrest. The problem lies in that these people who would take the leap to join your cuase wont take the leap to leave the friend ( guild) they have been in for years. I am in the same situation. I just recently came back to the game and after finishing my HoM will probably do nothing but PvP, however my alliance is mainly PvE and I wont leave so I'll be stuck with RA and the occasionally HA. GvG takes time to be descent. Time for pvp is just not really high on people list right now. Once HoM rush has passed more will be in GvG. To attempt to rebuild that aspect of the game to what it was is admirable, its just not feasible.

On a good note Anet is aware of the things they did right and wrong in PvP in GW. I am expecting very high things from GW2 on the pvp side.